Diana is joined by Holly Hillyer to discuss the pervasive issue of social media censorship. They explore the difficulties of navigating ever-changing algorithms and advertising restrictions that disproportionately affect cannabis brands compared to alcohol. Holly and Diana also discuss the creative workarounds they've employed to engage with their audience despite these obstacles.
Diana is joined by Holly Hillyer to discuss the pervasive issue of social media censorship. They explore the difficulties of navigating ever-changing algorithms and advertising restrictions that disproportionately affect cannabis brands compared to alcohol. Holly and Diana also discuss the creative workarounds they've employed to engage with their audience despite these obstacles.
The episode concludes with an in-depth discussion on the challenges of cannabis payment processing and banking, highlighting the complexities of working with payment processors and securing insurance for cannabis operations. Holly also emphasizes the importance of educating new customers about hemp-based products and the health benefits they offer. This episode provides valuable insights into the ongoing struggles and innovative solutions within the cannabis industry.
0:16- Welcome to Your Highness Podcast
1:05 - Fave Pot
5:33 - Fave Not Pot
8:53 - Main Segment
00:16 - Diana (Host)
Welcome to your Highness Podcast. I'm your host, Diana Krash, and today I am joined by Holly Hillier of Utopia. How are you doing today, Holly?
00:28 - Holly (Guest)
Hi Diana, I'm doing super great. It's a cloudy day in Oregon, but I'm trying to not let that impact my mood too much.
00:38 - Diana (Host)
Oh, I won't tell you what temperature it is here in Maryland. I could use a cloudy day, because I would like to take a nap after this, but that's probably not going to happen. So because it's too bright, anyway. So we are going to start off this episode, as we do every episode, with our recurring segment fave pot, fave not pot.
01:08
And I am going to start with my favorite cannabis related item and I promised it's not just because you're on the show, because I'll tell you why. So my fave pot right now are the Utokia active gummies, the strawberry rhubarb. So first of all, I love that they have CBD in them and I love the flavor because it's very original. But also I just recently went back up to Maine, where I'm from, and strawberry rhubarb was a big deal there. Like my family would make a bunch of strawberry rhubarb pies and tarts and things like that every year when, like, the rhubarb would grow in. So I was actually just thinking about maybe I should try to make a pie, even though no one in this house would probably eat it.
02:04 - Holly (Guest)
It oh no, I love a strawberry rhubarb pie. My mom, when she's in a good mood, baking is her happy place, so same, she makes a lot of pies and she grows her own rhubarb. I grow my own strawberries, um, here, and yeah we, I have a whole raised bed of them, um, and they actually just started flowering, so I'm really excited. Nothing better than fresh farm fruit. I actually I quick little thought here. I thought I didn't like blueberries for pretty much my entire life until I grew my own blueberry bush, and they're delicious, but they're nothing like the store-bought you know, everything's picked before it's ripe, and then you know.
02:44
so yeah, I've discovered my love for blueberries on the farm. Oh, that's awesome. But you know what's great about the strawberry rhubarb, those active gummies too, is the CBG.
02:55 - Diana (Host)
So the CBG it has over 10 milligrams.
02:57 - Holly (Guest)
We don't even really advertise how much CBG it has in it.
03:01 - Diana (Host)
We have post the COAs but I know, sorry, I didn't mention that too. I just I was rambling. I love CBG.
03:08 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, it's, it's great. It really helps with like mind clarity too, and focus. So I often I'm a big gamer nerd, in case you didn't know, so I often take them before I'm playing a video game. I've been playing Helldivers. It's been a popular game. You're killing robots and bugs and my husband and I play together with some friends. So, yeah, active Gummy is perfect for that.
03:39 - Diana (Host)
Okay, well, I'll take your word for it, because I don't game. So what is your f fav pot right now?
03:47 - Holly (Guest)
My fav, actually. I really like growing and experimenting with different strains. So I'm also a grower in Oregon and right now it's black ice. So black ice is black domina and white widow, but it's. It smells like blackberries and I've always been a big fan of the fruity smelling. You know strains and I really I hate to say that I don't like gelatos, I don't like GMOs, you know. I don't like the stinky gassy and that's all that was popular when I first started growing over eight years ago. Everyone just wanted the gas and I had some fantastic raspberry cushions and things that I really liked, but the market wasn't really ready for that. And now it's kind of flipped and people really enjoy the fruity notes and the floral. So I'm really happy for that and this one.
04:49
Yeah, it's just it tastes and smells like blackberry syrup. That sounds lovely. You pair that with we were joking. You pair that with the Han Solo that I grew this crop and the Han Solo is almost like a buttery pancake, and so you pair that with the blackberry syrup. So I've been mixing the two in my bowl.
05:06 - Diana (Host)
oh nice yeah, it must be nice to have good pot. I'm just kidding, it's pretty bad at Maryland.
05:15 - Holly (Guest)
I can always smoke the green. My husband gets on my case sometimes because he'll pack a bowl and and smoke some and then I'll come in later and and he was like, no, we got to get the fresh, you know, and he'll, he'll clean it out for me and repack it. It's very sweet.
05:31 - Diana (Host)
That's so sweet. So my fave not pot right now is something I received to try to include for the Mother's Day guide on our sub stack, and I'm just going to plug that really quickly. So, anyway, one of the things I received were these shower steamers by the Herbal Zen, and I've only been able to try one of them so far. They sent me three different kinds, but this one's called ReCenter, and typically I don't like patchouli. It has patchouli, eucalyptus and lavender, but I don't really smell it like it wasn't overpowering and it definitely opened up my sinuses this morning and it's um, it's a nice smell and it's a nice like little, you know, deep breath kind of thing to do in the shower for a couple of minutes. So that's my fave not pot right now. What is yours?
06:31 - Holly (Guest)
mine is the new shows that are coming out. So fall out. I binged watched that immediately because I played the game. Like I said, I'm a gamer nerd, so I absolutely love that. They've been turning all of these games into series and it's become more of mainstream, like pop culture, because when I was growing up, being a nerd was not cool, and then now it's. It's again taking this, this shift, and I always compare it to cannabis that you know we're all like in the closet for a while and I know we'll really dive into this segment. But yeah, it's like the closeted nerds and the closeted cannabis people. It's time to like come out. And so the show Fallout and they've turned the Last of Us and the Witcher. The Witcher actually started as a book.
07:20 - Diana (Host)
Oh, yes, I started watching that.
07:23 - Holly (Guest)
Oh, excellent, yeah, I've done all three the book, the game and the series. That actor Cavall, henry Cavall, he's amazing. There was a big protest like people were angry when he got let go from the show. It was a contractual thing where I think he was doing the next Batman or something, and so people were super angry that he wasn't going to be the Witcher because he did such a great job. If you've ever played the games, he just is spot on. So, yeah, I'm just I'm loving seeing all these games be turned into shows now.
08:04 - Diana (Host)
Ever feel like life stress gets to be too, too much. Welcome to meet your gaia, your natural wellness partner. We are the number one rated provider of kratom, a 100 natural plant-based solution used in Asia for centuries to help increase focus, energy and relaxation. Want to know more? Use the code YHPOD to get 10% off your first order today. That's meetyourgaiacom and code yh pod for 10 off. Well, that's awesome.
08:55
Um, so, speaking of media, you're gonna segue, okay. So, um, we're going to talk about social media censorship and that impacts people in the cannabis industry quite a bit educators and just companies, businesses, brands, people who are, you know, advocates to just say how they feel about the plant, educate people about it, connect with people about it. So I know you deal with that, because I didn't even talk about how adorable your packaging is and like it's so vibrant and I know I'm not a gamer, so I didn't. I didn't pick up on, but I do love like the, the fantasy aspect of it, and I love your marketing around it and the cards that come with it and everything. I didn't mention that, sorry, that was rude, because that's awesome and I think a lot of people would love to tap into that, but I'm sure you've had problems like getting to that place where you want to be and connecting, because I know there's a huge audience out there that just loves exactly this, right? So how has social media censorship impacted your ability to communicate and connect with the community?
10:23 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, great question.
10:24
So it's really what I could say is crippling is the best way to describe it.
10:30
It's like how do you even find your audience and how do they find you if you can't hashtag anything cannabis related?
10:38
And I remember when I started up my social media account my first Instagram, years and years ago, I would look for the different hashtags and test them out and type them in to see if they were banned or not. Because if you type in a hashtag and it's, you know, shadow banned, it won't show up and I would find all the ones that were okay and then I would hashtag my posts with those and then probably a week later I would go through on that post and I would click on one and it would now be banned, like they constantly were updating the algorithm. So even if you really tried hard to find the right hashtags and do that work, the next week it was changed and then you would get your posts flagged and you know if you. An interesting trick for, or well, an interesting note for, people is if you go onto TikTok and you type in anything cannabis, you know cannabis, thc, any of those words just check and see what you.
11:39
You get the warning. It's the be aware and informed you know here's a hot. You know here's here's help.
11:47 - Diana (Host)
A PSA yeah.
11:50 - Holly (Guest)
And it's almost the slap in the face and so a little bit just kind of rude and disheartening. Like you know, you don't get that for other things. And then, on top of that, just being able to communicate with people and find people is it's not only social media censoring people, it's people censoring themselves. So you have.
12:11
I just discovered this a few days ago when I was on someone's post TikTok video and they had all of the comments said silent repost. I had never seen this before and it's yeah, of course, if you don't know, it's silent repost is you don't want to repost it yourself because then that will tip people off that hey, maybe you're into cannabis or whatever that topic was. So it's their way of commenting and saying, hey, I support this but I'm not going to repost it, support this, but I'm not going to repost it. And I think that just goes towards the stigma associated that we have to and we're trying so hard to turn to change the stigma and remove it. And I've always said I don't think it should be treated any differently than alcohol and people should be able to consume, and you have a lot of alcohol brands that are able to advertise more easily. So it's frustrating, it's definitely crippling.
13:14 - Diana (Host)
I know it's because I've done the whole you know mental gymnastics of it all to like let me try to follow the rules and then not not use the word cannabis. But then I'm like no, I'm just going to say it because that's what it is. Or hemp, and then I get shadow banned pretty much no matter what. Anyway, because I have pictures of people holding pictures of cannabis in my post you know things like like that and it's just like there's no way around it, right?
13:44
um, there really just isn't, because people can say that they're experts on this, but there's really no one who's an expert because the rules change every day.
13:53 - Holly (Guest)
It's like I see people spelling cannabis like cannabis, or you know we like oh right, yeah, even TikTok picked up on that, and if you type in that, it's yeah, so, and that's where I did a few videos on TikTok about kind of this coded language that people are using, and I'm almost worried of posting that, that the algorithms or the TikTok people or whoever is in charge of social media will then go okay, now you can't say this word or you can't say that word like broccoli. I even tried removing all of my. So we have two different businesses and two different accounts. So I have the farm one where we're an OLCC licensed producer. So my account was mostly pictures of what I grow, bud shots and you know and the like. And then we have our hemp side, which I'm being very careful about, where we sell, you know, our gummies and you know 2018 farm bill compliant stuff.
14:52
But on my farm side, where I had all of the beautiful pictures of nug shots, I had constantly been getting flagged on every single post that had any bud in it. So I removed every single trace of all my beautiful nug shots. And then I got the flag removed the cannot be recommended flag and that turned to a check mark and I went great, my account can finally be recommended after eight years. So I'm just going to keep it really, really clean Don't post anything. And then my husband posted a picture of the Fat Nugs magazine just to show support for that and that got flagged. And then we appealed it and I think they removed it again and we're back to good. And then they flagged our bio and it just said escape the ordinary or something you know. It wasn't anything and so there's no it's. It's really defeating. Um, I feel like you just really can't do a whole lot, and once your account does get a flag on it, it will just constantly get reflagged by the AI that's detecting it.
16:00 - Diana (Host)
Yeah, I mean they have teams on teams on teams for this you know, yeah, and those teams are probably AI. Yes, but they have teams making those AI smarter, right, like that AI, whatever you want to call it, yeah, so I know you already touched on it a little bit, but can you give us some specific examples on how you've been censored?
16:22 - Holly (Guest)
Yes, so I think almost every single one of my posts have been flagged on on every platform and I suspect often it's competitors Way back in the day. You know people used to go on to Craigslist to sell and that was before we were ever licensed and you know you would have the other competitors go and flag the Craigslist posting and it's funny that it hasn't changed in all of these years, even though it's been legitimized and legalized. So I think even a chart about cannabis. So YouTube has some pretty good policies about it being educational. If it's as long as it's educational, then you can monetize.
17:09
But even I think Facebook and Instagram are the absolute worst in my experience out of all the platforms, and I've heard of people paying money to get their accounts on shadow ban.
17:22
I've never done that. Like I said, I did all the work to get the flags removed and then the very next thing you post I mean, unless you're just not posting anything really related to the thing that you're trying to talk about, it just it becomes impossible. So there was actually a really frustrating case and I don't know if you've heard about what Colorado is trying to do. Yeah, so the Senate approved this bill, a social media bill that can force platforms ban all users from talking positively online about controlled substances, even state legal, and for Colorado that means psychedelics, because they legalize psilocybin and hemp and cannabis and I've even heard over-the-counter cough syrups like NyQuil. So they amended that. But again, they're just always trying to push the boundaries and I saw a lot of videos from people in Colorado saying, yes, like you need to make your voices heard and to stop this. But that's absolutely insane to me that a state could pass something that says you can't talk about it at all in any form in any form.
18:41 - Diana (Host)
So I know, and I mean it's already so difficult, as you know, to advertise because a lot of states have rules about, you know, billboards and what you can say on the radio, what you can say on the TV, I mean it's, it's bonkers, bananas, batshit, crazy.
18:56 - Holly (Guest)
It is, and you know what. So I think I can't remember off the top of my head, but I so don't quote me, but I think it's somewhere around like 30,. You have to prove that 30%, or at least 70%, of your audience is over 21 to be able to advertise on these platforms.
19:11
So how do you know on a billboard how many people are seeing that, or on radio, and so you can. You can kind of censor things a little bit easier on social media. But they're not even saying 21 and older. I mean, most people that I know have social accounts say right in the bio 21 and older, um so, but that goes back to the point that, yeah, it's just. How do you monitor?
19:37 - Diana (Host)
that though, like people I've had. People say they can't come on um the show as a dispensary because where they live, they have to be able to prove, like you said, that the audience is majority over 21, and I'm like I can't prove that though. I I really can't. I can I have some graphics that show what the age mostly is, but there's really no way to prove that because who's to say, like people aren't listening on you know other devices that people, other people use. I mean, it's just there's no way to really track that.
20:12 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, and what's maddening always is I always compare it to alcohol because I mean, honestly, if you just look at the stats, it's like alcohol kills 3 million people every year and cannabis, zip zero have died of an overdose. So it's, it's frustrating to see these two, um, these two substances treated so differently. And then, but you go into any grocery store and you see all of these, these big displays of you know beer labels that are all targeting kids. There's voodoo ranger and there's just there's countless.
20:47
I was at the store the other day and I took photos of probably 10 different beer labels that all were very cartoony and trying to overtly target children. But and that's, that's there right in plain sight in a grocery store. And cannabis, you know you have to go into a dispensary to even buy. And then you know, so we do the cards and our pre-roll packs and we have to get every single card approved by the OLcc that it doesn't appeal to children, that and their rules around bonkers bonkers too right, because we had we had a local segment um earlier this season or last season about it and it was.
21:30 - Diana (Host)
It was a very it was a bummer of a segment oh yeah, no, oregon is bonkers, it's.
21:39 - Holly (Guest)
It's even worse in some states, like I think it's on the East Coast it's either New York or New Jersey where you can't have color saturation over 50 or under 50 or over 50%, right, so you can't have like pinks and you know past, because that might appeal to children and it's like a color now and yeah, so it's. The censorship in all areas is very, very felt.
22:09 - Diana (Host)
Yes, and. And not to mention how much these restrictions make the packaging difficult for people who need it to be easy to open, you know?
22:19 - Holly (Guest)
oh yes, cr packaging absolutely. Um, we, I think the gummies are pretty easy they're. They're technically cr with the two zips, but some of those um ones where you gotta push the button and people with arthritic hands, um, I got a bag of caramels that had some sort of zipper thing on there and I just gave up and cut through it yeah, that's what I do, because I was like I.
22:42 - Diana (Host)
This is, this is people proof not even just like jigsaw puzzle and then like a zipper and a like fingerprint thing like what, what?
22:51 - Holly (Guest)
no, I scan.
22:52 - Diana (Host)
Yeah, I was like, no, this is not no, breaking into Fort Knox there right, yeah, I mean, and like you said, like it is really ridiculous when you think about it, like you mentioned alcohol, but um, we've also had people mention just regular poisons that are in your house, right, like just cleaning supplies, like you know those pine pods?
23:16 - Holly (Guest)
those were way more dangerous.
23:21 - Diana (Host)
Yeah, I can think of a lot of things kids did when I was in school. That was way more dangerous and it didn't involve anything that was illegal. So yeah, Uh-huh. And kids are going to do what they're going to do. I think the biggest thing is just to make it so boring that they don't care to know more.
23:40 - Holly (Guest)
You know oh no, and that's, that's the argument. Because, um, my brother and I got in an argument about Joe Camel and you know, cigarettes and everything and trying to, you know, train children. And my mom was just like I, I smoke cigarettes, not because of Joe Camel and I didn't even smoke that brand, but I was just gonna smoke a cigarette, like because more friends were doing it, and peer pressure, not the advertisements, not the cute, you know, camel on the packaging or anything. I mean kids are not getting these things because, oh, it looks, it looks so adorable, this package. It's that, hey, my friend's doing it and you know they don't. Yeah, it's well. Hey, my friend's doing it and you know they don't, yeah, it's well.
24:20 - Diana (Host)
And also, media just to bring it back around, because we're going to talk a little bit more about that, but like how it's handled in television and the movies and all of that too, because I used to smoke cigarettes and I thought it was cool, you know, and probably because I grew up in the 80s and 90s, that was, it was treated very much that way and all the media that we consumed then because we didn't have social media. And now they have social media, they being the younger generations and they're like you know what. That's not cool. And also it's showing that the data shows that, like in all of the states where it is legal in adult use, kids aren't using it anymore they're not using it any more than they were before yep, yep, absolutely.
25:09 - Holly (Guest)
They did the stats on cannabis use and the increased usage, uh, in teenagers and, uh, they still use alcohol more. They abuse that and it didn't really go up. And you know, my stats professor in college always said there are lies, damn lies, and statistics always very leery, like who will, who's paying for this and how are they manipulating the data. And almost every single time you look into it a little deeper and you go, huh, yeah, that's, that's not really what happened there, right, exactly.
25:47 - Diana (Host)
Yes, and so, talking about really being, you know what's really happening, one of the things, the ways that we do that, is through social media. So how do you navigate these limitations, Like, do you have any advice for people who are dealing with this and being advocates, you know? I mean, what are other ways that you deal with it? Do you have, like, in-person events or anything like that?
26:09 - Holly (Guest)
Or not in person, what the main thing that I can recommend is using coded language. So I did I think TikTok's great for this and I discovered gardening is the term that people use and you can never really ban that word. So that's what's great about it. It's not canna anything or spelling it in a different way. They're never going to ban the word gardening, because that's an actual thing that people do. So I've started using a lot of coded language.
26:46
It's not what I would prefer, because it makes it really challenging, especially when I'm trying to educate people and it's new to them and they have questions and I'm trying to explain Delta 9 or THC in a way where I'm not using those words. It makes it really really challenging. It's also kind of fun, though, to try to figure out another way to explain things, not showing the plant, of course, or any buds, even in veg. If you just have a cannabis leaf, you know, and then I think good word of mouth helps a lot. So there are some in-person events that like we just had the leaf bowl in Portland, but there's not a lot of great events. Sadly, it's not well organized. I've only been to maybe two cannabis events ever in Oregon that were, you know, put on well, but I'm sure I think other states actually have an advantage over us in that I've heard there are some really great events in California.
27:53 - Diana (Host)
Not in.
27:53 - Holly (Guest)
Maryland Not in Maryland?
27:55 - Diana (Host)
no, Not that I know of. Not in Maryland no yeah.
27:59 - Holly (Guest)
So I think there there are some ways to talk about it. Um, you just have to make some sacrifices. And I think when people start finding each other, I've also heard in comments people say, um, like I'm commenting here because I want to stay on canaTalk, you know, like they've discovered their people and so then you can follow more and engage more, and then the algorithm feeds you more of that, and so since I started my TikTok, my feed has dramatically changed. After I finally started discovering people, I didn't think they were even on there and surprise, surprise, they are.
28:40
I found a couple of sound bites that are just I don't. For some reason they haven't been banned because I don't know. They're a sound bite and sometimes the algorithm doesn't just pick up on the sounds, and one said something about cannabis in the soundbite and I just went to that clip, that audio clip, and then you could see all the other users that have used that same clip and I'm like, ha-ha, I found my people. So then I can go on there and like and follow and then continue being fed those people and that content.
29:15 - Diana (Host)
That's really good advice and feedback about it because, honestly, it is really difficult to navigate and I'm constantly trying new things. But, like you said, the fact that like there's a lack of in-person events, that's that's a thing that we are trying to correct. I said we, we don't have any events here and we just had an event, but and and unfortunately it was on 420, so we were up against a lot of competition. That was the one day there was a lot of events, but there typically aren't around here. But kind of to your point of what you were saying earlier about, like gardening and how like the plant can be used in so many different ways, and that's where we're coming from with these events like trying to connect with people, but it is difficult because um, I'm sure you encounter this a lot too people, while being critical of the fact that people just want to get high, are also just wanting to get high.
30:26 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, and you know, what's really interesting, diana, is that I rediscovered why I even got into this industry through TikTok and through the hemp business that I started, because I have been in the recreational market in Oregon for so many years and it's just been drilled into my head now like THC, potency, potency I want the highest testing stuff and people are inflating their numbers and all the customers I've heard so many comments of. If it's not over 30 percent, it's like I'm throwing my money down the drain. And the plant is so complicated and our you know endocannabinoid system is so complex. People don't understand a lot of the times the entourage effect, and it's not just about THC. Not to mention there's so many flaws with the way that we test for potency. I mean, the biggest one too is just if it's going to change over time and the conditions that stored, and there's just so many factors. I could go on and on about that, but I won't bore you. So you know you have people so focused on that that I kind of lost my way a little bit.
31:35
I, you know, I just grew strains that were going to test high and that was the focus in sales and I you try to fight it for so long that you just kind of give up and you're like, okay, fine, I'm not going to grow the strain anymore. It didn't test that 19%, nobody wants it. And then, uh, launching the hemp side of the business and engaging with people on Tik TOK and social media on that and the gummies. People wanted it for more than just getting high. I mean, some people do, but there are. I get messages every single day from people saying how much it helped them with restless leg syndrome, with anxiety, with you know. So it's definitely social anxiety. With sleeping Our Huckleberry CBN gummies are great for, you know, just relaxing and winding down and getting a good night's sleep.
32:22 - Diana (Host)
So, and those will also be in the Mother's Day gift guide.
32:26 - Holly (Guest)
Awesome, awesome. Yeah, we have a great bundle We've done, you know the. We have active anytime and nighttime, so it kind of covers you for any mood you're in. But it's so, it's so powerful the plant and the relationship that people have with it and and being able to connect and educate. And, like I said, there's so many people that this is brand brand new to.
32:49
And that's another thing that I've been in Oregon, in this little bubble where everyone has tried it by now, but in other states where they don't have access, that's super new and I want to be able to educate and I want to be able to connect with people and give people access because I know it can help them. So it's been a really eye-opening experience since February when we launched this and being able to connect with people. And now, of course, tiktok is like my main social media platform right now where I'm engaging with the most people. And then, of course, there's talking about banning it. I know right, you can't win. You're like banned everywhere on for cannabis on social media, and then you find somewhere, and then now they're talking about taking that away.
33:37 - Diana (Host)
I know, and so, speaking of taking things away really quickly, let's talk about how all of this intersects with the payment processors, because you sell products, so you're dealing with it on a lot of other levels that I probably can't relate to, but I'm not selling any products and I recently got shut down by Stripe.
34:01
I've been shut down by other ones before as well, when I was connected to other you know brands or whatever, which it kind of made more sense at the time. But this time I'm not selling anything, I'm not offering any services, but yet, because we even talk about CBD any services, but yet because we even talk about CBD they tripled down on their decision, told me it was irreversible and there was nothing I could do to appeal it. So I mean, I know you deal with that a lot. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
34:52 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely so. On the cannabis side, it's funny, our utopiafarm website we actually were selling merch, so just shirts, and we got shut down on that. Yeah, so I can understand even not selling banking through a credit card, a credit union, and they got wind and shut it down. So I kind of gave up on that for a minute. But banking on the cannabis side is absolutely just impossible. Uh, it's, it's so frustrating. There's only a few banking options. When we first started there were none. Everything was in cash and it's changed a little bit.
35:19
But there's places like maps that charge you an outrageous fee every month and they want access to your metric, you know seed to sale, tracking data and everything. And then they're on the payment processing side. For, are you tokyocom? I got set up with Square. I heard Square is CBD friendly and you apply to their CBD program. I did all of the right steps, got it all approved and then, before I even sold a product we were still building the website out that I got a notification that my account was being closed and 90 days and I contacted customer service probably 20 different times and was told it was being escalated. And I said I followed all of the steps, I did all your forms and got approval. What is going on here? I haven't even sold anything and eventually they just shut me down and I never ended up getting to anyone that could help me with that. And since now we are with Valmar.
36:22
But we tried out several other payment processors and some were okay with the gummies but not with the hemp packs. Others it was reversed and they were okay with the hemp packs but not the gummies. So, and then a lot of cases you get charged way extra. This is the cannabis taxes, like the green tax. For, like, everyone told me to go on Shopify, if you're on Shopify and don't use their payment processing, then you get charged an extra percentage. Uh, they will. I've heard from friends who have used it with their online stores and they'll take, they'll do all the transactions and take all the money and then they'll never distribute it back to the owner. Um, so they just straight up steal from cannabis companies.
37:08
And, yeah, there's there's probably other things that I'm even forgetting about, but even trying to. Um, you know, get the website up, get payment processing. You know, even getting insurance, insurance on stuff. So ensuring like our building, where we actually grow, cannot get insured just for normal like, not the product inside. We just want actual physical building insurance and you have to go through really expensive companies to do that. So and then, not to mention if you're driving your car with product and then you know car insurance like I don't think most people tell their you know Geico or whatever what they're doing, because I'm pretty sure they would probably say you don't have car insurance anymore and you can't insure with us. So, like, our homeowner's insurance, yeah, won't cover that outbuilding, even though they'll cover, you know, any other business type. So it's I think it's more challenging than people from the outside and even know it goes beyond social media. So I'm glad you brought that up.
38:17 - Diana (Host)
Yes, it's infuriating Like people think that it's just like I'm saying. People, I'm generalizing People who aren't in the industry. I mean, I've definitely heard so many different types of stories, but, like now, this is new to me Just even talking about CBD, like what yeah, okay, wow. Like what yeah, okay, wow and it really really limits the amount of content that you can create.
38:45 - Holly (Guest)
I mean we could go on for days, but um well, and one quick note is uh, you're talking about events. I don't know what it's like in other states, but Oregon has the Oregon Clean Air Act, and so that's the main reason why we can't have very many consumption friendly events, because you can't smoke inside and so you have to get. You have to do it at a private residence or somewhere, a private business, and then there you know if anyone's serving there. There's yeah, it's a whole, a whole thing. So usually there's been a couple of smoking lounges that have tried to open up and they've been shut down, even after doing all of these extra precautions of having any of the staff between like a physical barrier where they can't be exposed to the smoke and they can't go out onto the floor, and even then they got shut down that is so I can't even like yeah, it has been so tough in Oregon.
39:38 - Diana (Host)
I mean everything I've heard, it's just sounds terrible. I'm not saying it's a lot better here, but I feel like it's a little limited I you know.
39:46 - Holly (Guest)
What's crazy is things like um, you can only take out one ounce per strain per crop for yourself as the owner, like for in-house quality control. So imagine if they did that to a winery. Yeah, like you can only have one bottle of.
40:03
You know that you produce this year for yourself and no, that would never fly and being relegated to you only can sell to dispensaries, you know when, and that's it. I think california even has some like maybe farmer's markets or something if you're a certain size, but we've been trying to advocate and fight for maybe micro tiers. We're considered a micro tier, so we're the one of the smaller sizes of canopy that if you're small, like why can't you go to a farmer's market, maybe? Or have these other outlets, have farm tours, and they could buy it direct from the farm. And that's why there is such a big war though on.
40:45
There's a war going on between cannabis and hemp right now, and I find it so sad because we're in both spaces and I think that there's room for both, but yeah, it's cannabis wants to protect their stake in the industry, and I think people that have gotten licensed and invested so much money in their whole livelihoods in a lot of cases in this want to protect that.
41:09
They're like we've done all this work, we got licensed and we had to go through the whole state program and then, while all the while, the hemp people can just set up a website and sell, you know, thc and CBD products now, um, without having to go through all of the licensing and without having to have cameras on your product 24 seven and seed to sale tracking. It's so over-regulated on the cannabis side it's going to be so hard to unravel all of the tangled web that they've woven there of over-regulation. So I think it's actually my prediction is the hemp side is probably going to win. It's easier to put in some more regulations than to untangle this whole mess and I do believe that it's better positioned in hemp to give more access and freedom and ability to grow as a small business, because the cannabis side has turned into only big businesses with a lot of money are going to be able to survive. It's going to be big monopolies, absolutely.
42:16 - Diana (Host)
I learned a lot from you today and it was a pleasure talking to you. Can you tell people how they can support you?
42:22 - Holly (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the best way to support is find us on social. Utopia Herb Co. Our farm site is always Utopia Farms, so if you're interested in more of the cannabis content, utopia Farms is great and Utopia Herb Co. I'm really really active on TikTok Not as much on Facebook and Instagram on that side, but I do have to say that I am behind the ball on YouTube and Twitch and Twitter. It's just, it's starting from ground zero. It's always really hard to start an account from zero. I wouldn't start a Twitter now.
43:01 - Diana (Host)
If you haven't, don't even bother. It's not worth it right now.
43:04 - Holly (Guest)
That's good to know, because I know that they turn cannabis friendly. I know that YouTube, as long as it's educational content, is great. And Twitch I've tried a few Twitch streams and I think that's also turned into really, really hard if you don't already have an audience, to build an account and to be organically seen. So I think, yeah, find us on TikTok, watch and engage and comment and like and that will help push it out to other people that find that content enjoyable or useful or entertaining.
43:40 - Diana (Host)
Well, I find them, all of those things.
43:43 - Holly (Guest)
So thank you for sharing and thank you for joining us today.
43:47 - Diana (Host)
Thank you, thank you for listening. Until next time, stay high and beautiful. This episode was produced by your Highness Media Audio editing by JR Crash. Intro music by your Mom Likes my Music. Subscribe to our sub stack your Highness Newsletter for the latest announcements and event updates.